00:00 You’re listening to the live happier, longer podcast episode 39.

00:15 Welcome to the live happier longer podcast. We’re your hosts, Molly Watts and Angela McDade. We are here to help you build the habits of happier, longer life starting now.

00:28 Hey Angela. Hey Molly. How are Ya? I am well how are you? I’m good. I’m, I’m doing great. Uh, heading into the end of May already, which is just amazing and doesn’t look very lovely outside right now, but we can’t complain. We’ve had some great weather here. We, we’ve been spoiled. We just need to water all those nice plants we’ve just planted.

00:54 Yeah, exactly. I know our typical weather update here at the beginning of our, our podcast today, it’s just you and I. Yes. And I know, Super Fun. We are going to be talking about Brené Brown and her book, the gifts of imperfection. We decided on this book a, she has a few bestselling books we came about discussing Brené Brown because of her recent Netflix series. Yeah. Netflix documentary, uh, on daring greatly, which is another one of her books. And we watched it and it’s, you know, it’s hit the, it hit Netflix and it’s just already blown out.

01:34 Yeah. I really wasn’t familiar with Brené Brown’s work prior to that, which I feel kind of like I’ve been living under a rock since her ted talk. We just realized, which is quite popular. Yeah. Just a little, it’s one of the most, it’s one of the top five ted talks, ted talks of all time with over 40 million views. So you do kind of feel like, wow, how did I miss that? Yeah. Especially after looking into her and her stuff is just so in line with us. yeah, exactly. With what we’re talking about and the Netflix piece on daring greatly, I will just say everybody should go watch it because she is funny and motivating and intelligent and. Does a lot of hard truths but in a funny amusing funny yeah. Self-deprecating. Yeah. It’s really good. She’s just really good and that’s why people obviously love her so much. So, uh, let’s talk about the gifts of imperfection by Brené Brown.

02:39 So we chose the gifts of imperfection, which was not Brené’s first book, but it was really, um, probably one of the ones that or, or the one that started her kind of on this path where she is now. Um, she is a research professor at the University of Houston. She’s also now her own CEO and she has written at least five bestselling books. Uh, the gifts of imperfection, let go of who you think you’re supposed to be and embrace who you are, your guide to a wholehearted life. Yeah. And that was a thing that we both really, that resonated with us was the, the wholehearted life. Oh, wholehearted life kind of sounds like you’re going to live a happier, longer life, doesn’t it? Yeah. So it seemed to be, that seemed to be, yeah, it seemed to be, um, uh, something that would fit in with what we talk about and uh, it says right there, let go in the very title.

03:32 So we knew immediately that daily action number five was going to be something that was clearly a big part of what she was talking about. Um, I don’t think that either one of us was really expecting all of the information or really had a good gauge on what yeah. So much it would resonate with everything we talk about, and just really trying to understand where she’s coming from and the position that, uh, as a researcher who has studied, you know, she’s basically an expert in shame and vulnerability and authenticity. This is what she spent 20 years of her life studying. And in fact, she even says that this book really came about as a, you know, the culmination of her work, which she just saw this glaring pattern emerging. Yeah. In front of her, yeah. The pattern. And she was like, no, I don’t want it to be this way.

04:34 I don’t want this. I don’t want to have to dive into this. But, but more admit to it. Yeah. That, and then in fact, she says that it really caused her to look at her own life and, and she had kind of a breakdown, uh, you know, of who, of her own life. She, she signed up, she jokes about the fact that she signed, she signed up for a therapist for six weeks. It took eight years and her, she called it a breakdown in her therapists called it a spiritual awakening. Yeah. So it’s all about reframing. Yes, exactly. So, um, you know, there’s a lot here. There’s a lot here, period. Um, but I think that, uh, just by the very fact that, um, she is who she is and what this has come to mean for so many people, um, it was definitely worthy of conversation for us and its application to what we talk about.

05:30 So the book itself is not long. It’s, um, but it’s, and it’s broken down into kind of an introduction and then these chapters, which are guideposts, she calls guideposts for living this wholehearted life. Yeah. And at the end of each chapter, she actually has what she calls her dig section. Dig stands for getting deliberate, getting inspired and getting going. Yeah. So each chapter she has what you want to do and what you want to let go off. And then at the end she says, okay, so here’s what you have to do to, to achieve that. So it’s a nice that we it say, oh, it’s a nice template. Yeah, exactly. It’s, it’s actionable, right? We’re, we’re big into action around here, taking action, not just consuming.

06:18 So that’s how the book is set up. And there’s an introduction and the introduction really talks about these three traits. She calls them the three Cs of imperfection, that they kind of are the path of leading this wholehearted life. And the three C’s are courage, compassion, and connection. And that is what she says is basically at the root of living a wholehearted life. And that is through courage, compassion, and connection and building those in your life that you get to have this wholehearted life. And then she takes you through the guidepost. And those are kind of the ways to cultivate courage, compassion, and connection in your life.

07:02 So the first very first chapter, uh, the very first guidepost I should say, is cultivating authenticity. A big theme for, uh, and well, it kind of resonated throughout the book, but this whole idea of letting go of perfectionism and, and, and just know not being worried about what other people think. Right. That was the. That was the big message from that one. Yeah. And well, I mean, being, being authentic, being able to let go of other people’s expectations, other people’s, um, opinions, views on what you’re doing or, you know, or people pleasing, all of that kind of, you know, and I think that many, especially many women, many moms, yeah. Um, you know, we’re, we’re born with a nurturing kind of people pleasing habit, right. I mean, we’re, we’re nurturers, we’re caregivers, and I think you just always want the best. Yeah. And so that comes in many forms of, you know, trying to be, not necessarily trying to be the best, but just always, you hope that people look at you and think that you’re doing a good job. And I think that’s with everything that she taught, she talks about is, you know, what other people are thinking about you and everything that you’d go about doing. And her message here was that you have to let go of worrying about what other people think and just be you.

08:43 You know, they’ll story you, do you. Yeah. Well, and it’s also that you, if you’re, you know, understanding you’re not going to be flawless and you’re beautifully imperfect and being able to love yourself despite of that and believe that you’re worthy of love and being loved. And you know, we talk about this, we talked about this just between you and I, but there is, there’s definitely it. Whether it’s love, you know, a self-love. But I know in terms of people’s mindset and people’s happiness, because we talk a lot about being happier and feeling better, there is a definite pattern tendency to think, oh, if only I, yeah, that last, that last 10 pounds, if only I had a better job. If only I lived in, you know, a different house. If only my kids would do this dilemma, husband, you know, etc, etc.

09:49 Right? And it’s this deciding idea that you have to be somebody else, have something else to be happy, when in fact it’s all about your own mindset and being grateful for you know what you have right now and, and, and living and understanding that that’s your, that it is you, that’s your life, your, it’s your living, your authentic life is being and once you get there. And once you really just embrace it and understand it and understand that, you know, pretty much half the time things are not going to be like, Yay, hurrah. Things are going to be tough. Yeah. But I think as well, the, Oh, it didn’t work out, but it’s a good story. That’s the beauty of imperfection. Right. You know, and just things, you know, letting go off, you know, everything. Everybody expects this and if you don’t, if you don’t reach that, it’s like, oh, well, you know, that’s a good story.

10:53 Yeah. Yes. She says her in, in about authenticity, cultivating authenticity and letting go of what people think. Authenticity is a collection of choices that we have to make every day. It’s about the choice to show up and be real. The choice, to be honest, the choice to let our true selves be seen. And of course I love the fact that it’s every day, you know, these are the, and one of the things that I know and if you watch the t the ted talk or the Netflix documentary, you know, she is all about, you know, it’s tough, you have to be courageous, but you choose these things every day, not, you know, just living a life that is kind of a shell of a life because you’re not wanting to be, you know, you don’t want to deep dive deep into your own authentic self.

11:47 So guideposts number two, and this is also really huge in terms of letting go of that, of letting go of the perfectionism is cultivating self-compassion. So there’s, there’s something then she says this here and it’s important. Perfectionism is not the same thing as driving to be your best. It is not self-improvement. Yeah. And I think that that is again, something that’s super important. Um, I’ve talked a little bit about that in our newsletters and stuff, that the idea that looking at yourself with self-compassion and especially when you’re trying to do things to improve your life and improve yourself, understanding that even in that journey you’re going to have missteps and to be able to look at those missteps with compassion and not the idea that, oh well you’ve screwed up. You’re no longer perfect. You’ve not done it, you can’t do it. So quit trying. And I think it’s back to that, the of self-compassion is, is it something you would say to your friend, the things that you say to yourself, is it something you’d see your friend like, right, right.

12:59 Losing weight, here’s an easy one. Losing weight. You beat yourself up. But if your friend said, I’m trying to lose weight, would you tell them you look terrible? Right. Good idea. You should do that. So is it’s back to self-compassion, is it something you would say to somebody else? You know, and if, if somebody is trying something out and it didn’t work out, would you say, oh, you’re such a loser. You didn’t, that didn’t work out. And so it is, you know, and I don’t, I mean, you don’t like to, I think, you know, no one likes to really claim negative self-talk. I don’t think we like to admit that there’s, you know, that you’re, because intellectually, right, we can kind of sit back and look at it and go, yeah, that’s not good. You don’t want to do that. And sometimes it isn’t even just an articulated thought where you’re going to yourself, oh, that’s, that was really stupid. That was really dumb. You know, maybe it’s not even that you can get caught into a think is when you spiral. yes. Overwhelm and you get this negative thought loop going in and get depressed and it’s just, it just feeds on it and it just takes you to another place. Yeah. And overcoming that practicing self-compassion, um, consists of three elements, self-kindness, common humanity, which I think is kind of what you’re talking about with, you know, what you do to your friends, to somebody else and mindfulness and, um, you know, self-kindness.

14:31 I think that people are, you know, self-compassion. There’s a bit of kind of a, I don’t know, we pride ourselves here on busyness and productivity and you know, um, achievement, right? So self-compassion, I think there’s a bit of a stigma like, oh, that’s kind of a week. You know what I mean? Like there’s a weakness there because, and that’s where I think a lot of Brené Brown’s work is based in, is that vulnerability. She says vulnerability is, is basically the linchpin to courage. You know, it’s, it is, they are the same. You cannot, the most courageous people are the most vulnerable people. And while I think a lot of times people associate self-compassionate or that kind of vulnerability with weakness, you know, so.

15:32 Guideposts number three, yes, I think this was really important. This is important for many reasons. Um, it’s cultivating a resilient spirit, letting go of numbing and powerlessness. And she says right here at the very beginning, resilient people do several things differently. I think it’s really important because if you haven’t listened to it already, folks, go back and listen to our episode with, uh, Dr Emily Rogalski and the super agers. Yeah, it was a number one common story among them was a resilient spirit.

16:11 Yeah. And, and it came from them having these adverse experiences in their life where, you know, just terrible, awful things happen to them. But due to their resilient spirit, the could move on and it made, you know, the, the, they came out the other end and it wasn’t, it didn’t, it didn’t ruin them. Right. You know, she says the very foundation of resilience is the belief in something bigger and the ever present light at the end of the tunnel. And I, it’s funny cause I was just, I spent a good amount of time with my dad this last weekend. I have to drive with him, um, to and fro Spokane, which is a six and a half hours, seven hour trip here from Portland for those of you that, and um, so he and I got to spend a lot of time talking, which is great. Yeah.

17:08 Unusual for us. And he told me that himself. He said, I think that I’ve always just had an attitude of, and he called it an attitude of optimism. Like, I just don’t let hard things just get down. Yeah. He said it point blank. I just have never let hard things a derail me always. And, and really he’s talking about resilience and that this hope that you can overcome really anything. And the balance of that. And, and she talks about this a lot in this chapter, which of course I was really um, interested in too, is this is numbing. The only way that you can, that you can get to this resilient, resilient spirit is by letting go of numbing and power powerlessness. Um, and a lot of people find ways to, to numb and it, there’s like addiction comes from this and so you can either go down a path that will make you avoid dealing with it or you can deal with it, head on and move forward.

18:29 Yeah. And what I loved about this, I mean, one of the parts that I really loved about it was this whole idea of you can’t just numb out the bad stuff. You’re numb everything. Yes. When you choose to, to numb your life away, you numb not only the, the stress and the depression and the negative thoughts, but you numb away the joy and you can’t have, you know, and she talked about it and she talks about it in the Ted talk, which is, I mean, I thought was kind of, it’s, it’s funny, but it’s so poignant and so true. And if you’ve read any of our stuff, and you know, this, this, uh, the addiction part of, of my background and my mom, the, she says, you know, people, you have this bad thought so, or you have this negative emotion, you want to numb it.

19:20 So, you know, he drank a couple of beers, eat a banana muffin, she goes, eat a couple of beers, drink a couple of beers, eat a banana nut muffin, you know, and of course then afterwards you get into this shame cycle where you’re upset because you drank the beers and ate the banana nut muffin and then you feel terrible. So you drink beers, banana nut muffin, you know, and, um, I mean, that whole idea of building a resilient spirit. And really being able to take your emotions head on and really embrace them. Something we’re going to be getting in more into a lot more into as we move forward here with a five for life. Because really, truly it really is at the crux of living that happier, longer life. For sure. Yeah.

20:14 And at the end of her chapter on resiliency, she in her dig deep there, she talks about her, uh, a good friend of hers gave her, uh, the, Eh, something during, during a 12-step meeting, um, a e I o u. So because it’s from a 12 step meeting. Of course, the first one is have I been abstinent today? So she says, however you define that, um, it, you need to to, again, it may not be that you, uh, you numb or you buffer with alcohol, but do you buffer with food, with work, with the computer, with shopping, with, you know, whatever it is that you do to escape dealing with the situation. Yeah, yeah. Then, you know, that’s so you want to be abstinent. So A’s abstinent. Have I eaten? Have I exercised today? Well, you and I both know that moves daily. Action number one. Um, I what have I done for myself today? Oh, what have I done for others today? Share am I you am I holding onto unexpressed emotions today? And why is Yay, what is something good that’s happened today? That’s gratitude right there. Yeah. So really those AEIOU big, um, synergy with our five daily actions. Yeah. And a big part of cultivating that, that resilient spirit.

21:40 Guidepost number four is the cultivating of gratitude and joy. So obviously, yeah, we are all about that. Yes. She says letting go of scarcity and fear of the dark being joyful doesn’t mean that you’re happy all the time. Yeah. And I think that’s the thing that she talks about that and this, this chapter about being happy and being joyful is not a permanent state. And even just kind of going back to the resilient spirit, um, they kinda go hand in hand. And that is, you know, you hear it, you don’t appreciate the good until you’ve had the bad a lot of the time. So, so life is all about these, you know, ups, downs, ups and downs. And if there were always up then you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t have any appreciation for the up but when, when bad things happen and you get through it, you just then appreciate the good things. And that is one of the things, um, she found in her research is a lot of these people found the little things in life. It wasn’t the, Oh, I’m so glad I got this great job. I’m so glad I’ve got this great house. It was, I’m so glad I get to set out in my backyard and enjoy listening to the birds. You know, it’s like it was people who truly, um, these wholehearted people, living people that she found. Um, they had good attitude for the little things in life because they had these ups and downs and that’s. And she practiced.

23:19 And she talks about practicing it and I’m not gonna be able to remember if it was, I  think it was in the book. I’ve had a lot of Brené Brown, right? Brené Brown overload. But I think it’s, in the book, she talks about having a, a practice of gratitude. And of course we talk about that being a daily action. We have it in our planner and our journals as a place to write it down every day. And why people, you know, why gratitude journals have actually been shown to increase longevity. Um, she talks about having a practice. She says that she talks about the fact, she says, I share, uh, an and a practice as a pose to an attitude, right? So we talk a lot about an attitude of gratitude. Yes. But she talks about the practice. She talks about herself. She says, you know, I kind of have an attitude that I would like into or that is very aligned with yoga. Yes. She, she like this. Yes. Was this was in the book? Yes. It was very, I’m very mindful yoga attitude. Right? I have a spirituality, I like to calm them. I like deep breathing.

24:23 Everything about yoga. Yes, I am that. I am that. She said, in fact, I even have yoga outfits. I have yoga pants. I have a, Yoga was here. She goes, however, do not mistake for a minute that I have a yoga practice because I have not been on a yoga mat efforts though she was hoping to get that resolved before this book came published. But I loved the analogy because that is exactly it. You can have an attitude all day long, but it’s the actual practice of things. Yeah. That is what cultivates this wholehearted life and what we would call a longer, happier life and think, and we have spoken about it before and you know, until you practice it, you don’t become right. You know, it’s like I run, therefore I am a runner, right? I paint, therefore I am a painter. Right? So it’s just that you know, until you do, right, you are.

25:26 Yes. It doesn’t really matter. Right. And we’re, that’s, you know, the habits. It’s, it’s, you know, we all know I am the, the atomic habits, James Clear. You don’t rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your systems. And that’s really what this is too. It’s not about having this attitude. You know, you can set goals, you can be this, but if you don’t do, if you don’t have the habit, yeah, you aren’t. Yeah. So anyway. All right, so cultivating gratitude and joy. I think we both, we understand that and you know, it’s more than a rapid mode of thinking. That’s the, yeah, she says that.

26:01 So guideposts, number five, cultivating intuition and trusting faith. Letting go of the need for certainty. Yeah, I like this one because, um, it, it just, I like the, the whole intuition. It’s something that, you know, a lot of people, you know, some people go with an intuition more than others and she talks about, she described and intuition as something that you get because there’s, and you just have it, there’s no real signs that that should result in your intuition. But then once she studied it a little further, she realized that actually there are lots of sayings, you know, between your own experience and things that are going on around that you don’t necessarily take note off. So that for me, I just loved that idea of, you know, that that gut feeling you get there, that it’s not just plucked out of nowhere, but it’s not something that you necessarily have really thought about. Right. So I just thought that was great.

27:12 Yeah. And she says, and in addition here, she talks about faith and she says faith and reason are not natural enemies. Um, and that faith in intuition kind of are in a similar place. That faith is a place of mystery where we find the courage to believe in what we cannot see and the strength to let go of fear and uncertainty. Yeah. And I think that’s the thing about it for the intuitions that it’s not something you don’t know why. The signs.. It’s not certain. Yeah. So the signs, may be they are somewhere, you just, you don’t know why and you know, you can’t, you know put your finger on it. Yeah. So it’s that, it’s that ability to, uh, be uncertain from time to time that, um, what she found was that that’s something that these people that have lived wholehearted life are good at doing.

28:03 Um, guidepost number six, cultivating creativity. So this was interesting because it’s letting go of comparison. I didn’t initially, I was like, what? Like, you know, um, because she says that comparison is all about conformity in competition and in her dictionary, uh, they’re not mutually exclusive, but incremental comparison has the twofold meeting a first fitting in and then standing out while creativity on the other hand is the expression of authenticity and it’s the nemesis of comparison. And we both, we’ve chatted about, I speak both think of creativity of as, you know, something that, you know, it’s not a competition, it’s just something you do. So that was, that was a hard leap for us, right? Initially. Yeah. Trying to understand her where she comes from with it. But um, you know, cultivating creativity I think is really more about that. You don’t have to do just what everybody else is doing and try to put yourself, you know, to again, it’s just more about and more about concerning yourself with what everybody else is doing and what have what everybody else is thinking.

29:17 Yeah. So, you know, the creativity process and um, comparisons like, or concepts like being behind or behalf be ahead or behind best or worst, those just lose their meeting, you know? So if you come from an attitude of creativity, you’re not concerned with yeah. Best or whether it is right and wrong or right else. Yeah. Right. And you were talking the in art lit, you know, you’re talking about the little kids who get so upset because they’ve done it wrong and our go to phrase is, There’s no wrong in art. Right. You just do it. Yeah. Which is a great lesson to learn. Even then.

29:56 Guideposts, number seven, cultivating play and rest. Letting go of exhaustion as a status symbol and productivity is self-worth. Uh, this is huge. I’ve, I’ve said for a while now that longevity is the new productivity for me. You know, I’m much more concerned with living a happier, longer life. But society was very concerned, at least here in the United States with the productivity. Yeah. And this the, the constant achievement. Yeah. And this is what she says, you know, dying of exhaustion is something that actually happens in this world, for sure. And scary, scary enough. The Japanese actually have a word for it. Karoshi, which is overworked death. I mean, so exhaustion. It is. It is. And there’s this, you know, people wear a badge of honor for, you know, pulling all nighters and you know, only sleeping for four hours a night. And we have discussed how bad that is for your health. Not good for you at all, certainly not good for your brain, um, and not the way you can prevent Alzheimer’s. Go back and find our episode on Alzheimer’s Prevention and the science of sleep, how important it is. You can’t let the fear of missing out on things or anything else, not, uh, allow you to cultivate this culture of play and rest.

31:19 And she does talk about that with her kids and with kids. I mean, and I think, Gosh, I know I can definitely see it all around me and I’ve fallen privy to it myself. This, being on the select team, being on this team, you know, running kids from activity to activity to activity. Certainly not the way that I grew up. Yeah. Lots more time for play. Yeah. Yeah. And uh, just unscheduled play. Yeah. And how important that is in our lives. And she says the opposite of play is not work. The opposite of play is depression. And because she talks in the book about, she saw these adults who were doing all these things with no real outcome other than just to do it. And she said, oh, they’re actually just playing. And you know, so as an adult you have to play as well, right. Kids, kids play all the time and you just think, oh, they’re just playing. But adults have to actually do that to.

32:23 Guideposts number Eight, we’ve talked about this before called cultivating calm and stillness. Letting go of anxiety as a lifestyle. Yeah. This is a big one. Yeah. This is a big let go. Let go. Um, there’s countless studies on the benefits of meditation on, um, deep breathing, all this stuff we have as a culture, again, harnessed that feeling of stress. Yeah. As kind of a badge of honor. And if you’re not overstressed, overworked, overwhelmed, you’re not doing it right. Yeah. And if people see what’s going on, how are you doing? Oh, I’m so busy, so busy, so busy. People are just always on all the time. And she talks what I like about her cultivating calm and stillness. One of her things is actually to, to Cam, she likes to go for a walk and she says, I know it’s not still, but the actual act of walking lets her calm down and the stillness doesn’t have to be a physical stillness. It’s just stilling your mind. Yeah. So for us, that’s a little twist. You know, it takes in both moving and giving your brain a little rest. We talked about and we had the Paulette Rees-Denis on with the walking meditation. Yeah. So, um, there’s definitely, it’s really, again, about stilling your mind, but letting go and letting go of that stress. So critically important to not only living a wholehearted life, but living, you know, as we say that longer, happier life.

34:02 Guidepost number nine, uh, cultivating meaningful work, letting go of self-doubt and supposed to, um, you know, she says, unless it’s dying or paying taxes, you’re actually not supposed to do anything. So there’s no, there’s no supposed to, there’s no have to, there’s no, um, you know, none of it. All it does is create anxiety about all of these supposed to dos. Yeah. And it Kinda goes back to the, you know, the cultivating self-comparison and cultivating that. You just going back to other things, you know, the authenticity. So you’re worried about what people think you’re worried about perfection and it’s because you feel like you’re supposed to be here, do this, have done that, have achieved this and there’s so many things that you, you can put upon yourself and it’s, and it’s related to not to you and what should be good for you. That’s about all of these other things outside of you. And her thought, her though is that you should be, meaningful work doesn’t have to be, um, a paid job. Right. Although it absolutely can be in, she talks about she had bought a pair of earrings from someone and she said, Oh, you know, you’re such a wonderful jeweler. And the girl was very much, Oh, I’m not a jeweler. I just, I just do this as a hobby. And she pointed to her ears and said, you made these, you are a jeweler. You know as back to Kinda like what you were saying. If, if you do something that makes you, you know, if you make jewelry, you’re a jeweler. So, and that, that is meaningful work, whether it’s, uh, a paid job or something that you do, it’s something that is meaningful to you and to find that is, is so important. She has a quote from Howard Thurman, um, in the book and it is, don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.

36:21 Guideposts, number 10, uh, cultivating laughter, Song and dance, letting go of being cool and always in control. This one I like, I have to say I giggled through a lot of it because there’s so much in it that just the eye again we were talking about earlier, you know, things that we go, oh, I’m doing a really good job doing that check. Good for me. And then there’s other things you go, oh gosh, I so need to work on that stuff. But this one made me laugh because like the laughter song and dance. Like I know that both of us, yes, the whole, we brought our children up on lots of music, Disney, Disney musicals and dancing and singing around at home. Um, but she talks about in her situation where she was in the mall and she’d like thrown on our old sweats. It’s, and she just was, you know, basically through a shelf together and went out the door and she was walking, she was going up the stairs with her daughter who started doing this weird dance to some song that came on. And these perfect parents and daughters who were in the store turned around and just kind of looked at it in a very strange manner and she just had this awful moment where she thought, oh my gosh, here’s my daughter just being silly and doing her thing. She could either go along with it or go, oh, stop it. And I know that I, I was, one of my things I used to say to my kids was, eh, can you remember you’re in public and that’s, although we were always silly and did things at home. That was one of the things I was like, oh, I would have, I would have said, Eh, remember you’re in public. Instead. She actually joined them, the dance with her daughter and that, for me, it just made me laugh because strangely my kids always went, I don’t care. It just used to, used to drive me insane. They still do it, but it used to drive me insane and it just, it was a little, I like, I should just do the silly things with them, you know? Yeah, yeah.

38:49 I know personally, silly is hard for me. I’m not a naturally silly person. Yeah, I can do it. If she talks about dance, like no one’s looking. Yeah, dancing. It’s fine. Yeah. Yeah. No, but even just that whole phrase like no one, no one’s looking, and I know I do it with my little kids I look after. I am so silly. Like they think I’m hilarious, right. But I would not be like that if their parents were around you know? So it’s Kinda like there’s it’s OK be silly here, but it’s not all OK elsewhere. So yeah, it’s a tough one. The quote that is that you’re referencing and most people say attributed to mark Twain is dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love. Like you’ve never been hurt and live like it’s heaven on earth. Great words to live by great words to live by absolutely. Not always easy, isn’t easy. But all of these things, just like we talk about with our five daily actions, it’s about mindful living. It’s about intentional living. It’s about choosing the things that you’re going to do with your life and focusing on it. But it’s actually doing the actions, doing the work. And she talks about that this is not, this is a lifelong. It’s a consistent practice. This is a life’s work, soul’s work. This is a journey and it does require effort. It requires, uh, intention and it requires you to use your brain. Your brain doesn’t want to do things that are hard. Your brain’s quite comfortable in, uh, you know, just be rolling along, rolling along to really get to have that, you know, wholehearted life to really achieve it. You have to, you, it’s more than just learning about it. It’s more that than reading the book. It’s taking the action.

40:38 Yeah. But great words to live by and I really enjoyed everything that I’ve consumed by Brené Brown. Yeah. I highly recommend watching her speak. I mean, her stories. Yeah. If you’ve watched him speak, it’s actually nice to watch her speak. Yes. Before you read the book. Yes. You then hear her voice when you’re talking. Yeah. And she, we said before, she is so funny. Yeah. She just hired turn of phrase, the way she says things, her expressions. And she’s just funny. She’s funny too. It’s just great. You definitely like fulfill like you’d want to go sit down and have a cup of coffee with her and just, yeah. You know, listen to her more. Um, I will say, and this is just a side note, the audio book is not narrated by her and was challenging for both of us. I did listen to it on audio on it.

41:31 I didn’t, I didn’t enjoy it as much as I could. I think. Um, and like in contrast we’ve listened to, I’ve listened to a couple of Rachel Hollis’s book, so she narrates them herself and it’s, it’s great and it’s just sad because I do so enjoy listening to Brené Brown. Yeah. That the audio book, but the book itself and the content is great. It’s great. Yeah. Gifts of imperfection. Let go of who you think you’re supposed to be and embrace who you are, your guide to a wholehearted life by Brené Brown. So that is us for today. Um, we will see you all next week and thanks for listening. Here’s to a Wholehearted life. Yeah, for sure.

42:12 Thanks for listening to the live happier, longer podcasts. Now it’s time to move, share, give and let go. Five daily actions to make the rest of your life the best of your life. See you next week.

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